here audio, video, transcript. Below is a partial synopsis of the episode.
Coleman and Tyler discuss whether jazz was created in a color-blind society, how easy it is to disentangle race and culture, whether we too should strive to become „autism-blind,“ and Coleman Explore the effects of color blindness, including personal issues. Lookism and the experience of ageism. They also discuss what Coleman learned from J.J. Johnson, the hardest part about playing the trombone, playing a set with the Charles Mingus Big Band as a teenager, and how Billy Joel was a great We also discuss whether or not they are the Beastie Boys, what kind of reservations they have toward conservative fans, and why the Beastie Boys.What he learned from Noam Dwarman and why it's overrated interstellar ' is Chris Nolan's masterpiece, Coleman Hughes' production features, why political debate is so toxic, what he'll do next, and more.
Below are some excerpts.
Cowen: How did you start playing the trombone? charles mingus big band?
fuse: I attended the Charles Mingus High School Jazz Festival (still held every year). It was new at that time. They invite bands from all over the world to audition, identify a few good soloists, and have them sit with the band for one night. I was sitting with the band, and the band leader knew I lived near New Jersey, so he invited me to start playing with the band on Monday night.
I was probably 16 or 17 at this point, so I took the New Jersey Transit train to New York City on a Monday night and sat next to people who were once my idols and who were now my mentors. We sat down and played two sets with the Mingus Band. kumba frank lacey, he's a great trombonist.and he played art blakey and D'Angelo Such. Then I went home at midnight and went to school on Tuesday morning.
Cowen: why music charles mingus Specialized in jazz? That's what it is for me, how would you describe what it is for you?
Another one is:
Cowen: If I understand correctly, you are saying that you should be colorblind in your personal life as well.
fuse: yes. Broadly speaking, yes. Or we should strive to be.
Cowen: We should strive to be that way. This is where I might disagree with you. So when I look at the media, I look at social media, I look at the controversies, I think I almost 100% agree with Coleman on these race-related issues. In my personal life, I don't have much confidence.
Let me questions.
fuse: of course.
Cowen: Did jazz music originate in colorblind America?
fuse: Was it made in colorblind America? What does that question mean?
Cowen: There seems to be a lot of cultural creativity. Part of the problem is that it might have taken some effort, but that's not my point. Motivating it requires a sense of cultural identity. That means the people making it want to express something about their lives, their history, their community. And for them it's not colorblind.
fuse: interesting. My counterargument to that is that, as far as I understand the early history of jazz, it was much more racially integrated than American society at the time. The culture of jazz music that existed in New Orleans and New York City, for example, influenced the era in terms of how people should live racially: their attitudes toward interracial friendships, interracial relationships, etc. Yes, my sense is that the jazz spirit was more colorblind than the American average at the time.
Cowen: But perhaps there may be a portfolio effect here. Oh, yes, benny goodman hire teddy wilson To play for him. As you probably know, Teddy Wilson was black. And it works amazingly well. It's good for the world that Benny Goodman does this.
Isn't it still the case that Teddy Wilson draws from something deep within his being, deep within his soul: his racial experiences, his upbringing, the people he knows, and that's what music is all about? That's where a lot of the expression comes from? Even though we would all support the fact that Benny Goodman was going to hire Teddy Wilson, this is clearly not colorblind.
fuse: yes.Maybe — maybe not, I would argue. culture-blind, but probably colorblind in the sense that black Americans are not just representative of the race.That's what black Americans have in common – that I What I have in common with people from Ethiopia is that we are almost the same „race.“ We are not the same culture at all.
I believe that there is something called „African American culture“ and that it has produced many great works, including jazz and hip-hop, but to that extent it is not a cultural work. I completely approve. Just as country music, for example, is kind of a product of broader Southern culture.
Cowen: However, there is something a little worrying here. People express their personal cultural visions in public in a variety of ways, including music, television, and novels, but when they become cultural visions, they inevitably become political to some extent. So these other visions will be there too, and many of them you won't agree with. You might say, „I wish we were all more colorblind.“ But given that there are these other non-color-blind visions out there, in a way I don't feel the need to counter them by being less color-blind myself and say, African American, Ethiopian, or some other identity?
Interesting throughout.